My big thing is as long as Microsoft has the bulk of the market, they
will always but always be bombarded with attacks. Who is the last
person you know who had a Mac or Linux machine taken out by a virus or
Trojan or worm? How many people do you know who were taking out TODAY
by one of those things using MS?

Dont care about the security lapse of the MS os. I use Ubuntu and
just like to view features of other systems.

I would also still avoid clicking on links. You can use
any OS, but if you click on a link allegedly by your bank, your
operating system might be immune, but your bank account can still be
cleaned out LOL.

That said, what you say is precisely the truth. Microsoft is the big
target, so the idiots (and wannabe idiots) will always be writing stuff
to attack their system.

I never follow links from untrusted sources. I am amazed at the people
who do. I was joking around to a friend about when I used to work for a
computer consultant and how the following passwords were always used:
guest, password, 1234, 4321, qwerty, sysop, adminasst, sysadmin, etc.
etc. I said never use your kid or pet's name and never use a real
birthday or anniversary. They just flipped out that I was like the
ultimate hacker. I am told them I was beyond a lame-o at hacking and if
any of those were their passwords, they were even lamer than me.

This argument is constantly trotted out (usually by Microsoft to try and
excuse their inability to write uncompromised software) and it is
certainly persuasive. But *only* if you consider the desktop market
alone. As soon as you look at the server market, the argument becomes a
lot weaker.

In the server market, Linux dominates. Not, it has to be said, to the
same degree as Microsoft dominates the desktop market, but it still
takes about 50% of the share, with other Unixes taking a large slice of
what's left. Microsoft has by far and away the minority share. And
yet, when the crackers go after servers, they *still* go after the
Windows servers.

Why? Because they are the easiest target, not because they are the most
numerous. If Microsoft took security seriously - and there is a
conspiracy theory which says they don't by deliberate design - then the
numbers argument would actually become true across the board as the
crackers would no longer have the incentive to concentrate on the weaker
target.

Just what have you hear about W8? They are trying to go in the
same direction as Apple. With online store and every thing. Developers
would have to send all programmes to them to get certified before they can
be sold.
That would be trouble for any shareware programmer. It would be an
boom for Linux in that Linux would be the only OS that doesn't certifies
it software. There is talk that W8 would disable duel boot. I make over 20%
of my income off of Internet sales. It was said that Microsoft would
ask for 30% of sales for the right to sale for Windows. Now, is that 'Very
Cool'?

I do not understand. And if there is an amateur programmer or somebody
working for a company making programs for internal use or somebody who makes
freeware ?
That would be an absolute monopoly. People will turn away from MS in larger
numbers. Android on PCs, Linux on PCs...Escaping from the Gulag...
...Computer vendors giving support for lots of other OSes...

Unfortunately, MicroSoft know that their target market is populated in
the main by sheeple who will blindly take whatever they get fed :-(

What's needed is more education that isn't MicroSoft led, and that's a
hard ship to change course - going to take a *lot* of pushing

AF> People will turn away from MS in larger numbers.

How do you get any amateur programmer or shareware programmer would have an
monopoly? MS wants system builders to put code on broads that will not run
any programme that
is not MS certify. That means every thing would have to be sent in to MS to
be certify by them.
Do you think they will let an shareware OR even an freeware programme that
completes
with there's out? Only thing different then Apple is that Apple doesn't put
code to disable
unlicensed software in it to keep it from running. MS hasn't release all
details yet but that was what some testers are saying.
I hope MS doesn't do that. BUT as greedy as they are. They probably will.

WS> You use a pic for your login and then you can use gestures like
WS> swiping in a certain location on the pic to log in.

This is already there on Android so MS is just playing catchup, as
ever, but have the advertising muscle to make is sound like they first
thought of it - nothing changes I guess Another thing to note
about all this cool login technology is that it always has to have the
fall-back of the usual password and that's just as vulnerable as ever.

Most worrying is the business of EUFI secure boot lock-out that MS are
insisting on Win8 phones and once that's accepted I fear it'll be the
thin end of the wedge to make this standard on Win8 laptops / desktops
too. That will prevent alternate OS's ever being installed, even if
you take out the HD and fit a blank one in. Motherboard makers have
said that they'll keep the option of disabling this but if MS get
their way then it'll have to be locked out to get Win8 certification.

We've been waiting for an upgrade to the antiquated BIOS for years and
just as it arrives we get this tagged onto it :-(

What's the betting on how long it'll take before these EUFI lockout
keys are cracked / posted on-line / hacks created to add to Linux
loader ?

It won 't be long before a hack will circumvent EUFI problems
for multi OS boot. On the other hand ,an increasing number of suppliers
,incl in the UK, are now supplying desktop/laptop PCs without an OS
installed.
For the more tech interested,there is also the option of a ´bare bone´
machine ,which comes without a HD , DVD writer , separate graphics card
,which then require installation by the user . With these latter 2 options
one also doesn't need to pay the M$ Tax .
There are always challenging alternatives keeping the mind active.

Been down that road, and also building from scratch when the prices
warranted it ( things change a lot and sometimes the bare bones is the
better option, sometimes getting individual parts ).

Main issue with this EUFI secure boot is the pre-loaded systems that
most folks buy with Windows already installed. MicroSoft have long
wanted to prevent anything other than Windows being used on PC's and
EUFI has provided the ideal tool for them it would seem. Currently
they say they have no plans to insist on secure boot being locked in
with Win8 on the desktop / laptop - but as ever, what they say and
what eventually happens isn't always the same

As you say - if Win8 does eventually come with a locked EUFI then it
won't be long before it's cracked open and then the whole point of
locking it will be lost.

BTW - how prevalent is the BIOS targeted malware ?? Not seen it at all
in the 9+ years of fixing up PCs !!

FD> On the other hand ,an increasing number of suppliers ,incl in the
FD> UK, are now supplying desktop/laptop PCs without an OS installed.

MS has just announced that they will insist that devices with ARM
processors and W8 not be allowed to install Linux. I would not be
surprised top see them reverse their position on the desktop or laptop
and forbid Linux as well. The reason I say this is that they are
progressing more towards Apple's position and have one OS and sell
everything from an app store. This has been going on since they
announced they would allow Linux on laptops and desktop with W8 and
EUFI.

And if they try that, then MS will never sell another product in the EU.
The European Commission have already slammed them with one massive
anti-trust fine(*) and they would not hesitate to take even stronger
action should MS refuse to learn and keep trying to abuse their
effective monopoly.

I very, very much doubt if that position with regards to ARM processors
would be allowed to stand within the EU, either.

And why don't the EU take the same stance with Apple? Well, *they*
don't have a monopoly position that they constantly abuse, do they?