Of course I would use linux if I were in the 3rd world. Nobody I know of
uses linux because they can't afford microsoft, they use it because they
prefer it.

Actually, microsoft has taken some baby steps, but they still have a
long way to go before I would consider using microsoft windows as my
default operating system.

I have been using linux for some years and find it flexible, stable and
capable. Whenever I've had occasion to use microsoft windows, I feel
like one of those parents crammed into a tiny kindergarten desk at open
house. In short, I can't wait to get out of there and get back to the
comfortable environment of linux.

You maintain that pirated software is free, but what happens when a
virus or worm destroys your personal data? Is there not a cost
associated with that loss?

Let's be truthful. Most people use Windows because it comes with the
computer and they are too dumb to install an OS by themselves. They can't
say that it is better than anything because they likely have not used or
seen anything but Windows.

While Windows is not free (as in beer), the cost is hidden so they do not
see the advantage of having a free OS. The idea of cost does not factor in.
Most people also feel no guilt in breaking licensing agreements and
installing Office on a home computer when they use it at work. Then they are
on the thin edge of the wedge and they stretch things to include other
software that is too expensive to buy, such as Photoshop.

What little free software that exists for Windows is also hard to find
because Windows users are used to being marketed to. It must come in a nice
box and shrink wrapped to be legitimate. Their experience with shareware or
trialware gets most people to conclude that free software must be even
worse.

Linux is not just different, it is a whole different ecosystem. You either
get it, or you don't and most Windows users by the time they come to
discover Linux are too far gone to know anything different. Windows becomes
their gold standard of OSes.

Yes, this is gross generalisation. There are knowledgeable Windows users,
but that is not the average user. Most computer users cannot find their way
around Best Buy let alone an operating system. I have a computer sticker
that says, Idiot Outside (instead of Intel Inside) and that just about sums
it up. If you have ever worked a help desk in IT then you will agree. There
are no limits to technological stupidity.

My continuum of user tech savvy (from lowest to highest): Mac, Windows,
Linux, BSD, Unix. We aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer, but close to
it. I know Windows sucks because I know it and keep up with the news. I
know, for example, that Microsoft just admitted that its servers were used
to spread spam and that they just released 49 patches on Tuesday, most for
security problems. Remember Stuxnet. Well, they finally patched that
vulnerability. It isn't just because Windows is popular that it is
targetted. It has real problems. There are more servers that run Linux, yet
spammers hacked Microsoft's own servers. Why? Because they could.

BTW, the Mac just passed 10% usage rate in the US. That should mean that
there should be 10% of the viruses for Macs and 1% for Linux (much higher if
you include servers). But it does not turn out that way. Windows owns almost
100% of them.

Personally, I don't care who uses Windows or not. People get what they
deserve. Smart users even on Windows do not have nearly as many problems as
dumb ones. The same could be said for wifi networks. Stupid people do their
online banking on public networks or on insecure home wireless networks. You
don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that we have people playing
Russian roulette with their identity and enough of those people are going to
end up casualties to their own stupidity. Giving such a person a computer is
like giving a child a loaded gun, IMO. Wanna bet what OS they are probably
running?

I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. Most
people are also too "stupid" to fix their own television sets, repair
their own automobiles, diagnose their own illness, and recognize their
own arrogance. But the fact is that even the highest of intelligent
people on this planet cannot create a single atom of matter, or design
anything that comes even close to being of the quality of say, a
grasshopper. Just because you can install an operating system or write
code does not qualify you for much.

Yes, most people are too stupid to do those things, but it does not cause
the same problems. I never heard of a TV virus or identity theft from using
your car.

I am not talking about fixing your computer. I am talking about using it
without causing problems for yourself and others.

Most people cannot fix their computers, but many also cannot use them
safely. They are a jeopardy to themselves and many of their friends. Windows
is made simple enough that many people can use it, but not safe enough to
protect people from their own stupidity. That is the problem. Clueless
people should not use Windows. It is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately
Microsoft thinks that their product is safe, but the world is full of unsafe
Windows machines because the OS is not safe and most people do not have the
interest, knowledge, time or patience to learn how. So it remains a half
done job and not very nice people exploit that weakness.

My problem is not with stupidity. Not everybody can be a brain surgeon and
there are many fine people who are not smart. But people do not know their
own limits and the limits of what they are using and the danger has grown
exponentially as a result. eg. I'm a PC and I can infect your computer with
a virus because I do not know how to secure my computer properly, but I am
going to use it anyway because Microsoft says it is safe.

i am happy to read all your opinion , i know ubuntu is flexible , safe , easy to
use ,,,etc . but why it is still one of the lowest operation system used
personally ( i am not talking about the service editions ) , i remember that ( i
do not know i think it was in 2001 ) linux is going to control about 20 % of
operating systems market , and we are going to 2011 and it is less that 1 % ,
0.77% exactly as i read the article last month, while Mac 5 % .


by talking like that , i am not against linux , but i would know why we still in
the tail not in the front ? , and we know how linux is strong and how it is the
most OS used in the services of the biggest company of this world .

is the problem with marketing ? windows control more than 60% of the market , it
is mean ( if we say that 4 billion uses computer in this world ) more than 2.3
billion use windows , and i do not think that all this people are stupid

you mentioned that 1% of US using linux and because of that
there is no viruses for linux , do you prefer to stay this percent in it place
or proceed forward and accumulation of viruses and hackers against linux ? i am
asking you as professional

The number one reason that Windows is all-pervading in the home PC
market is that very early on they realized the potential of tying the
hardware and software together as a single package. Other OS's were
too slow to respond and by the time they realized what was happening
it was too late. It's also fair to say that Linux for many years was
the realm of the geek and command line with arcane text strings was
the only way to get anything done. The rise of Linux OS's such as
Ubuntu is very recent and most PC users haven't a clue that there's
anything other than Windows - "Computing" and "Windows" are seen to be
one and the same. I try my bit here where I live and have switched a
few customers over to Ubuntu very successfully but it's slow going and
some just can't get used to it, requesting a switch back to Windows
with all its faults !!

As for all those hacked copies of Windows in the 'third world' if it
wasn't for them we'd all be having a lot less spam and viruses due to
compromised systems. Maybe it's here that Linux should be pushing hard
but unfortunately too many users just don't care if their PC is part
of a bot-net or not and until that attitude is changed it's an uphill
struggle for everyone

Roll on IPV6 when it will be possible to reliably trace the sources of
spam and viruses to individual PC's then block them out

They were not the first or even the best at this. That has always been
Apple's forte. They not only make the software but the hardware. It is
proprietary to the nth degree and it did it before Windows was even thought
of. Microsoft has a cosy relationship with OEMs that is mutually satisfying.
They up the ante with bloated software and make equipment obsolete and OEMS
support Windows and not other operating systems in return. Plus they get
cheap licenses for Windows that they can use to sell computers to us, in
return for an exclusive engagement. If that's what you mean by working
together then I agree. It's called collusion and it works against the user,
keeping them on a treadmill of upgrades.

I would not go so far as to blame the third world for spam. Much of it comes
from the developed world and broken copies of Windows can't do much unless
you have internet access which much of the third world does not have. Just
today, Microsoft admitted that spammers from Canada hacked two of their
servers and sent out mega amounts of spam before they figured it out. They
admitted it only in the face of leaks that outed them. They said the servers
were "misconfigured". I interpret that to mean that they were misconfigured
because they did not have Linux. BTW, Canada is not considered part of the
third world, but it is a haven for spammers. Two Montreal men were recently
fined a huge amount (over $1B) for spamming Facebook users. There are huge
numbers of spammers everywhere including the US and UK. It is a big and
growing business.

It must be lucrative, but I can't figure out who would be stupid enough to
respond. I have received lots of spam over the years and as of yet, have not
responded to one. They are so pathetic that you would have to be really
desperate to act on the garbage they are selling whether it is cheap/ fake
Viagra or offers of phone sex. Have you ever been tempted? You don't have to
answer that.

Like you, I fail to see how anyone can respond to Spam but enough
folks do to make it lucrative - we still hear stories of folks being
taken in by variations of the Nigeria Spam even though it's widely
known about now !! As the man said "There's one born every minute" !

As for Apple - their insistence of micro-managing everything from
software to hardware to sales to support ( which they still do ) was a
major factor in their inability to compete with MicroSoft in the
emerging desktop market. I don't think they even want to get into it
in a big way - the move to the i386 hardware could have allowed them
to release the brakes a bit but they still hang onto the same methods
of micro-managing. Yes you can buy OSX but buying suitable hardware
for it to run on is still a bit 'pot luck' as you cannot buy the same
hardware that Apple uses.

Linux *is* the future, but the future may not be what many imagine it
will be. Will smart phones with projecting screens and keyboards /
alternative input methods sound the death knell of the desktop ? Who
knows, but the chances are they'll all be running Linux

Take your point about the sources of Spam - so really we only have
ourselves to blame.

I was once an Apple guy, but that was pre-Mac. I loved the Apple IIs
openness and hated the Mac's locked down closed approach. I left for DOS and
never looked back. Now I am a hardcore Linux guy for the same reasons that I
loved the Apple II. I love the idea that it is open and free. It takes me
back to my roots.

Unfortunately many people grew up with the locked down mentality because
they came to computing through the Mac or Windows. They do not feel what I
feel because they have never experienced it.

If nothing else Linux is a breath of fresh air. I love that it is
alternative. I love that it is free and open. I love that it is community
based. I love that it is something that I can change and become part of. I
love that it is so diverse. I would not change a thing if I could. Most
people do not get that.

They approach things form an entirely different perspective. They see one OS
as best because it gives uniformity. I see uniformity as mediocre and bland.
They would rather have one distribution, one package management system, one
desktop environment, etc. Choice boggles their mind because they have never
enjoyed it. It is like a prisoner must feel walking out of solitary
confinement and being placed in a shopping mall where everything is free.
You face overload and don't know where to begin.

But, the thing is that there is no rush. Take your time with Linux. It is
changes quickly, but it remains fundamentally the same. It won't go away. If
you use GNOME, KDE won't disappear as a choice because many others use it
and support it. If you use Ubuntu now there is nothing to say that you won't
try Fedora at some future point. Fedora is going nowhere. The idea is to
start small and learn as you go along.

I think that Linux is a perfect fit for most people and especially for those
in the third world. It should be part of every government at all levels
because tax payers should not be subsidizing Microsoft or Apple when there
are free and open alternatives.

I hear Microsoft apologists say that Linux is communistic, but it can't be
if it is free and open. Communism is about being closed and locked down
which is what Windows and Apple OSes are all about if you think about it. If
you read the Microsoft license then you see that you have no choice. You buy
Windows but never own it. Microsoft owns it and you just get squatter's
rights.

Linux is Microsoft and Apple's biggest threat because it offers freedom of
choice. They cannot stand that or live with it. that is why they do
everything that they can to pressure OEMs not to offer Linux as a choice and
they churn out so much FUD about Linux. Most of their litigation against
Linux based companies, Tom Tom, Motorola, HTC etc. isn't about winning a
settlement or getting money. It is about spreading fear. If you use Linux
then Microsoft or apple will come after you. As long as they can raise that
boogie man then they can stave off their demise.

Linux is the future. Free and open is the future. Collaboration in
development is superior to closed shop development. People are just
beginning to see that. Even Microsoft is showing signs of getting it. There
are people in the company that are progressive, unfortunately none is named
Steve Ballmer. He is Microsoft's biggest weakness. Company insiders
recognise that. A recent survey of Microsoft employees showed that they are
bullish about the company but not about their CEO.

Why Linux vs. Windows????????????

Yes. Bill Gates once went to eastern Europe and gave a rah rah speech, where
he railed against piracy. Someone reminded him afterwards that many of the
programmers in the room got their start on pirated copies of Windows and now
work for Microsoft. He was in effect shooting himself in the foot by
depriving young programmers of access to Windows. I don't think that he has
made that speech since in a third world country.

Linux is much more prevalent in Europe in general and it is growing in the
BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China). I am not suggesting that it
is competing on an even foot with Windows, just that the numbers are skewed.
It is lower in the West and larger in the East.

Yes, the success stories are real. Wikpedia switched to Linux a few years
ago. They run Ubuntu. Yahoo runs Linux and BSD (Yahoomail). Google has
banned Microsoft products entirely, even on the desktop. IBM use Linux on
servers and the desktop. Even Hotmail used Sendmail at one time and
Microsoft recently was revealed to be running Apache servers. Shell runs
Linux servers. Most banks do because of its security. Even the US postal
service uses Linux to read addresses from envelopes. TiVo runs on Linux.
Paypal runs Linux. Zimbra uses open source.

see: http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linux2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux (server and embedded devices section)
http://www-03.ibm.com/linux/
www-01.ibm.com/software/webservers/httpservers/
http://mtechit.com/linux-biz/ (great list of companies that Hitachi works
with that use Linux)
http://www.bugzilla.org/installation-list/ (list of companies that use
Bugzilla and therefore must be running Linux because that is what Bugzilla
runs on)
http://curl.haxx.se/docs/companies.html (companies using curl)
x4.6times7.org/.../whouseslinux
http://www.linas.org/linux/
wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython
http://www.mirabilis.ca/linux/linux-users.html
http://www.mysql.com/customers/
www.inforret.com/.../Perl_PHP_Programming.html
http://phpro.org/articles/Companies-Using-PHP.html
http://www.daniweb.com/news/story243967.html
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...ft-win_n_595783.html
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-963937.html
www.theregister.co.uk/.../

Apache servers share of Internet traffic:
news.netcraft.com/.../...09_web_server_survey.html
www.pcworld.com/.../linux_is_on_the_rise_for_bu\
siness.html
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html (How Linux saved Amazon millions)
www.businessweek.com/.../windows-and-linux-servers-grow-at-uni\
x-s-expense.html
www.cyberciti.biz/.../...rvers-to-ubuntulinux.html
www.cyberciti.biz/.../...success-story-paypal.html
www.informationweek.com/.../showArticle.jhtml\
04300034
www.networkworld.com/.../ebay-use-joomla-open-source-glue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_Linux
en....pedia.org/.../List_of_devices_that_run_MontaVista_Linux
http://www.mvista.com/partner_portal/search/

I could go on all day, but this will give you an idea of the range of
companies and products. I am sure that I have forgotten as many as I have
remembered. It is a long list.

And says what? What is good for the US is good for the third world. What is
good for the most powerful man in the world is good for those without power.

Yes, I understand this but there are some things I am not aware of. In
Romania, for example, Linux is THE server operating system, but on the desktop
it seems that almost nobody wants to use it. There are some exceptions, however:
some IT students and IT professionals, some IT companies and some computer geeks
and hard-liners as well as people like me who do not want trouble.
Some accounting and database programs are mandatory and they work only under
Windows. That means that some offices must use Windows. Others do not have to
use it. Lots of children are addicted to gaming. So, Windows is necessary on
most home computers. There they use lots of pirated copies of Windows XP Pro.
Viruses are very common and many times whole networks are messed up. Lots of
people hardly know how to use a computer and, of course, have no idea where the
trouble comes from. Others are too stupid or lazy to act. I have heard software
problems blamed on the hardware ("very weak computer"). Nonsense ! Sluggish,
virused, messed up Windows XP ! Some use it until the PC does not work at all.
Many think they cannot use Linux although they have not seen a Linux PC in
their life.
I admire these successes with Suse in India
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_g72GcaIdc
Suse in Germany, gnuLinex and Guadalinex in Spain, Ubuntu in some parts of
Western Europe and I am curious about how the general public reacts to Linux. Is
it a positive or a negative experience ?
In Romania the usual reaction is annoyance and hatred.

Most of it is likely attitude. In order to buck a trend you need to have
strong resolve. It is likely that users in Romania know that this is what is
used in business in the rest of the world and they do not want to be any
different. And they would be right.

If the Third world want so join the rest of the world and be on equal terms
then they want what the developed world has. This would include Office and
Windows and also things like vehicles and material possessions as signs of
their new found wealth. It is just human nature. It is happening in China
and India now where there is an emergent middle class.

I recently heard a documentary on the radio about Pakistan. The young people
who have jobs eat at McDonalds and shun traditional food. As a result they
call themselves (proudly) hamburgers. They are turning their backs on the
rest of their country and making a statement. This is causing splits in
families as part of this social change. I suspect that such things are
happening everywhere. Tradition is giving way to western influence.

I find this sad because culture is heritage and it should be respected. It
represents where you came from and everyone needs roots. You build from
there instead of starting a new tree.

I''ve never been to Romania, but I have been to eastern Europe. I know that
differences exist between eastern and western Europe. I also know from what
I have read that some parts of eastern Europe such as Budapest are becoming
quite cosmopolitan and other parts are still very traditional and held back
by religion and culture, as well as a weak economic infrastructure. It takes
time to make lasting change. Revolutionary change often is short term and
then the pendulum can swing back at any time. Either way change is
inevitable.

In the computer world we are used to things changing quickly, but you are
talking about cultural attitudes more than computing habits when you look at
what people want.

Not just in Romania - Linux is king of the servers all over the world,
and similarly the Linux Desktop is virtually unheard of by most PC
users. The folks I've converted to Ubuntu here have in the main been
very positive about it - some being almost evangelical about their new
OS <lol> Some will never leave Windows but that's more to their own
'fear of change' and will even put up with learning to get along with
a different version of Windows and all the virus / malware protection
because it's still Windows ( even not feeling safe because they can't
install AVG / Malware Bytes etc etc ). Joe Public has been brainwashed
by MicroSoft for a long time !!!

Brainwashing is a good word. Most people equal Windows with desktop
computing. They don't know that they have a choice. Microsoft is continually
spinning things to get their message across and they have the money,
connections and power to do it.