Check that Secure Boot is disabled in BIOS ( will we still keep
calling it that when UEFI is all pervasive ? ). Read a post with same
problem and that was the trick to installing Ubuntu.

In your part of the world there must be source for Laptop/Desktop PCs
supplied WITHOUT an OS
In the UK there is at least one I know of ,because I ordered a desktop
machine from that source ,be it 2 years ago .
They still do , including Laptops . For a desktop PC you can resort to a
´barebone' machine ,ordering a separate HD You then have the freedom to
install whatever you like.

Yes we can find machines without an OS. The
prices are normally higher than those with Microsoft products on them.
This is the reason I have suggested to those wanting to get a computer
in the past that was the way to go. However with every passing year
Microsoft has worked with computer manufacturers to make the job of
installation harder and the need to learn new hoops to jump. For the
record we did find a work around. Seems the windows loader only
recognizes 64 bit OS. This as well as one must first start windows to
jump to the distro one wants to install. After the sequence that makes
no sense to me you can then start the Ubuntu install procedure. I didn't
find the answer so I can't give the details but it seems once you start
the Ubuntu install you can then boot from the Ubuntu CD and install as
you would like. With every year it seems that Microsoft's weight is
thrown around to hender installing of another OS other than theirs. For
this reason I think it good to put together a buying club that could
maybe lower the price of a bear bones system for those wanting to use
Ubuntu or any other Linux distro. If we think ahead then maybe Microsoft
can't claim numbers that will help them manipulate computer
manufacturers further.

To Barry This was what we found as far as an answer. I am going to go
over the procedure John found and learn it then I will pass it on to the
list.

Sounds like the Ubuntu install was started whilst Windows was loaded,
i.e. a WUBI install rather than a full install involving resizing the
Windows partition. You still end up with a dual boot but the Ubuntu
'partition' is actually just a large file within Windows. Looks just
the same as a full dual-boot but has a slight performance hit though
easier to remove ( i.e. you can just uninstall from Windows like any
other program ).

As for systems without OS's - my UK supplier has these all the time,
desktops and occasionally laptops, which are a little cheaper than
equivalent specification systems with Windows already loaded. Remember
an OEM will not pay the same as we would for their Windows licences
but would have to purchase them thousands at a time. Also depending on
prices it can be cheaper getting the parts individually and building a
desktop from scratch. When asked to build a system I'll sometimes go
for the individual components, sometimes a bundle deal on motherboard
/ CPU / RAM plus case etc, sometimes a ready built one without OS. All
depends on what's available at the time :-)

Most Windows systems come with a whole pile of
?e?x?t?r?a?n?e?o?u?s?
?c?r?a?p? trialware.

The publishers pay money to have that stuff included, so the "cost" of the OS
plus trialware might actually be negative.

Maybe. However he told me he was then able to wipe the disk and install
Ubuntu. This may not be true as many people don't understand that WUBI
is not really an install at all but a compromise. I will take the time
to find out.

Perhaps we are lucky in this part of the world. My nearest supplier,
who has a Windows shop, is quite happy to supply a bare
bones machine, and to deduct the cost of a normal MS operating
system.

P.S. He is a bit cautious about warranty issues because his tech
(?) does
not understand Linux.

I don't think anything with M$ has changed since the days of Win 95.
How many versions of that were there... a, b, c iirc.

> I went to a local computer shop only to find the professional pulling
> what hair he has left out attempting to remove 8 from a machine someone
> brought to him to upgrade from windows 8 to windows 7. I searched google
> online for a method only to find many posts of how bad 8 is (To bad such
> posts are not helpful).
>
> If there are no answers to this, are there any suggestions on how to
> keep Microsofts efforts from #####ing us all? I am wondering if we could

M$ have always produced a poor version first when they do a new
edition as opposed to an upgrade. Then they can do a couple of
versions to correct the problems they should have resolved in the
first place. Three lots of profit for one version! Sorry i don't mean
to be cynical but fact is that has been the pattern.
win 95 a,b,c
win98, 2nd edition, Me
didn't use windows after that!